IMHO NASA-X should be... Options

[offcamber]

…a rule set that experiments with different and new ideas that the SCCA is too slow to act on or try.

First of all, this is not a bash or put down to getfast's tireless effort to (heaven forbid) run an auto-x with non-SCCA rules. this is merely a suggestion of what "I" think would work best for the sport financially, participation wise, etc...



Current solo2 rules: http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2009_Solo_Rules.pdf

Current NASA-X rules: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/nasa-x/NASA-X_Rules.pdf



Just for fun…let me know what you think, and what needs improvement.



Glossary:

?????? = I’m not sure what the value should be or whether that should be an allowance/restriction.

Rules 3.0- Option classing

- Club racing classes would be appropriately classed so as to do ok but not generally be a frontrunner or overdog.

Thesis:

- start with a good rule system(solo2) and make it better

- Some classes have “options” that allow for a noobie to fit in, but just like an option slalom, there is a right and wrong way to take it.

- all classes will have guiding mission statements that are used to adjust the rules throughout the years
- some rules should remain vague to keep competitors away from the gray area, instead of detailed where you can find loopholes (think U.S. vs. Texas constitutions)

PRIORITY #1: Rules that work for autocrossers

PRIORITY #2(subordinate to #1): Rules that work for casual autocrossers (folks who race at local events with semi-regularly with their daily driver or weekend roadster)

PRIORITY #3(subordinate to #1&2): Rule making aimed at novices with common aftermarket modifications or no modifications to be classed in such a way that their car is at least somewhat competitive. No more: “well you need special wheels and tires just to compete in ‘stock’ class”, or “the class I’m in has a bunch of stripped down racecars on slicks”. There is no way this will work out perfect because there will always be a noob who will outsmart you with his “removed front seat” or “no headliner” , but I think it does as good a job as can be possible without hurting those serious competitors for which the sport depends. In this economic down turn I believe the less classes running on R comps the better. I am fully aware though, that some people very much like running R comps even in the stock classes.



LOCAL:

- national rules effect local rules and competitors, not just the “pros”.

- Almost all “street” classes use 140 wear street tires which also ups the number per class at local events. Tire manufactures would chip in to pay for accurate testing of said tires to ensure minimal performance creep, and ensure tires have an acceptable about of water veins so they don’t end up like Hoosier A6’s with a harder compound.

- Stock through Street Modified X rules build off of each other except if you choose the “bolt-on” side of Street Touring, in which case you must have only factory OEM sway bar/bars

- local regions are encouraged to class extremely under-prepped cars in a class they feel is more appropriate

- You can only enter Novice class 3 times.

- Stock classes that had little difference in time could be combined locally to increase competition. Street touring, street prepared, etc…would be combined if possible to just

ST, SP. In other words instead of having SMA, SMR, and SMF, you would just have SM and that would enable changes to be made to the national rules to equalize local competition with less sandbagging. Number of local classes would be reduced and competition increased.



Allowances/Rules for every class:

- comfort and convenience allowance. You know, things like driver controlled machine guns for inconveniently placed conesStick out tongue

- appearance kits like euro/JDM/aftermarket tail/head lights and “chrome oil caps” are allowed so long as there is no significant weight difference and is a direct bolt-on.

- Aftermarket antennas are allowed provided they are functional(if required for the class)

- JDM or EDM/UKDM “front end conversions” that offer no noticeable performance advantages are allowed. Weight may be mitigated with ballast bolted/welded to the front bumper support.

- low hanging fog lights may be covered and protected to prevent damage

- modifications that with no exceptions has no effect or a negative effect on autocross performance(this may change depending on the class category)???????



Stock class: (street tires, OEM wheels of the same chassis code, reasonable shocks)

Cars are street legal and have only modifications that you would find in the general public (aftermarket radios, streetable tires that were not OEM, fluids, brake pads, etc…)



OPTION; cars that run R comps (other than SS and AS) will be bumped up 3 classes (this will only work if the classes are “speed based”, not “HP/drive-train layout” based)



- 140 tread wear street tires(only SS, AS, and FS may run R comps)

-exhaust must exit in stock location

- traction control/ABS may be disabled but not removed

- any “drop in” replacement filter

- up to single adjustable “non-external reservoir” shocks below a certain MSRP(or not??). - front and rear way bars and necessary bracing to prevent tear-out would be allowed.(this should help mitigate the fun lost from R comps)

- OEM wheels from the same chassis code that fit without modification ONLY (no aftermarket wheels).

- “trim level” Update/backdate is allowed as long as there is no difference other than interior/exterior colors. Sunroof and fog light plugs can be used to achieve this

- height and camber/toe/caster restrictions (just as easy as seat weight verification)??????



- SS is only for high dollar super cars($100,000 MSRP or above). Any US production car is guaranteed a spot here. One-off custom cars or “kit cars” that are street legal and capable of being registered in their respective state are eligible here or in an appropriate modified class????????

SS, AS, BS, CS, DS, etc…

- Classing COULD be based on overall performance (SCCA) with an eye on keeping popular cars competitive, or by type of car: all low hp mid engined cars here, all AWD cars there, etc…that would eliminate course dependency, but might warrant allowing some cars to run X inch wider than stock aftermarket wheels with to even out (to some degree) the competition i.e. Elise and MR2 turbo.



Street Touring (full interior, street tires)

A purely autocross focused class that favors one choosing the “handling” option as apposed to the “bolt-on” option. Cars are street legal. The premise is street legality, and value for dollar spent on prep.



OPTION; where you can either do:

- drive pulleys/header/cat/exhaust

- adjustable cam gears if not equipped with variable valve timing (see SP for full rule)

-small “tuner” wing

- tune (can’t touch boost pressure. Fuel and ignition can be modified w/ stock ECU in place)

OR

- suspension/sway bars, wheels of bigger dimensions

- shocks can’t have external reservoirs or be more that 2 way adjustable

- no non OEM wings/splitters

- Can swap in any factory LSD or “LSD Diff. unit” from the same manufacture provided it bolts up without modification, and the gear ratio remains the same???????

But NOT both.



Joe Noobie with his header and tune would only be going up against “pros” with coilovers/sway bars and camber kits as apposed to “pros” with an 89’ civic with suspension AND engine mods. Plus one could make a car much faster and be competitive with just suspension mods as apposed to also having to drop lots of money for 15hp to be competitive.

Allowances/restrictions that everyone has no matter what option you choose:



Allowances available for both options:

- 140 tires only

- intake

- rolled fenders, but no flared/cut fenders, etc., wheels must tuck under fenders when compressed.

- aftermarket drivers seat ONLY, at least 25lbs. (harness weight can be included if applicable)

- only aftermarket bushings for engine/tranny and steering rack

- can’t delete A/C unless you have a non a/c trim package

- coups are forbidden to have front passenger(shotgun) race seats because it renders the back seat useless.

- any shifter, bushings, etc…

- Aftermarket antennas are allowed provided they are functional.

- OEM steering wheel(airbag or not) and passenger bag as well

- abs disabled but not removed

- height and camber/toe/caster restrictions (just as easy as seat weight verification)??????



Weight based on “off the assembly line”:

Less than 2000 lbs = 6.5” wheels

2000 to 2499 = 7”

2500 to 2999 = 7.5”

3000 to 3499 = 8”

3500 and up = 8.5”



STA=awd, STR=rwd, STF=fwd,

STF; turbo and rotary cars get a multiplier???, 3.1 liters or less
STR; turbo and rotary cars get a multiplier???, 3.1 liters or less
STA; turbo and rotary cars get a multiplier???, 3.1 liters or less

STX: overdogs, and anything else excluding SS classed cars

wheel width penalties would be assessed for 2 seater cars?????

STU: any non SS car with unlimited wheel size



Or…

STA, STB, STC, ST…wait…????



Street Prepared (full interior, street tires)

-This class is focused on allowing common bolt-ons and suspension/wheel modifications to the cars stock configuration in order to “prepare” it competitively without changing the basic components of the car. Engine should not have to be torn down and rebuilt to be more or less competitive. The Basically like SCCA’s ST classes but with some current SP rules thrown in to add speed without that much more expense. Instead of imagining a scenario where the EPA teams up with the IRS to audit your cars emissions compliance, the rules are based on what you can get away with during a local inspection (cats present(at least one cat per exhaust tube), sniffer test, OBDII coming up clean)



- 140 tires only

-intake/header/cat/exhaust/coilovers/camber adjustment

- can use any OEM brake calipers as long as it from the same company and is a direct bolt-on and the diameter is bigger. (300zx brakes on a 240sx, or NSX brakes on a civic/integra, etc…). I’m not sure what else should be allowed in order to facilitate these conversions in a safe and useful manor without opening Pandora’s box.

- braided brake lines allowed

- Drum brakes may be replaced with disc brakes. Disc brake rotors
for such a conversion must be equal to or greater in diameter
than the inside diameter of the standard brake drum.

- pulleys allowed

- fog lights may be removed and a plug cover the hole

- whatever steering wheel you want

- passenger airbag can be removed but hole must be covered

- OEM type or Braile/odyssey battery only (must weigh at least 10 lbs.). No lawnmower or motorcycle batteries. Must be mounted outside of passenger compartment/trunk unless it was there from the factory

- no wings/splitters

- hoods made of any material

- rolled fenders, but no flared/cut fenders, etc.,

-any wheels; but must tuck under fenders when compressed.

- abs disabled but not removed

- can’t touch boost pressure. Standard state OBDII test must come up clean. Fuel and ignition can be modified w/ stock ECU in place.

- can’t touch the engine/tranny internals except for cam drive pulleys and LSD’s

- any LSD

- Camshafts and related parts must remain standard except that
alternate cam drive pulleys or gears may be used to adjust cam
timing if no variable cam and/or valve timing system exists as
standard. Type of cam drive (chain, belt, gear) must remain as
standard. Alternate parts of the same general type (e.g. roller
chain in place of “silent” chain) may be substituted. Mating parts
(block, heads, covers, retainers, etc.) may not be altered. Vehicles
equipped with a variable cam and/or valve timing system
as standard may use alternate computer calibration to adjust
cam and/or valve timing but may not change or substitute cam
drive components (hardware).

- power steering my be removed proved the lines are looped

- height and camber/toe/caster restrictions (just as easy as seat weight verification)??????


ASP, BSP, CSP, etc…



OR…

ASP=awd, RSP=rwd, FSP=fwd, SPX=overdogs, wheel width penalties would be assessed for 2 seater cars?????



OR just get rid of street prepared altogether???



Street Modified (full interior, R comps)

Since I think SCCA’s SM/SSM went way past its original goal I’m proposing:

A class for “super street” cars that look like they are street legal but may not meet local emissions or noise standards. Cars are highly modified machines, but rely on their respective manufactures “parts bin” for the basic building blocks of their build, while taking advantage of relatively inexpensive aftermarket parts. Unmachined/polished engine swaps with cams, valve springs, etc..., and forced induction are allowed along with suspension/wheel/bolt-on/race focused but streetable ergonomics(seat, steering wheel)/and streetable weight reduction.



- R comps

-engine swap OR add/modify forced induction, but NOT both. Cars with factory forced induction can only replace their engine if it will not be forced inducted as an end result?????? Only SMF(front wheel drive) may do both engine swap and forced induction???

- Changing the basic suspension geometry and engine/tranny anchors is prohibited except for small modifications to fit the engine/tranny in the car.

-Mix matching basic compatible parts(head/block/tranny) of the same make regardless of national origin (Lexus/Toyota/Scion, in US, Japan, Europe, etc… for example) in addition to supporting parts (valves, springs, forged pistons, etc... from any aftermarket company)

- the engine must have the same number of cylinders or rotors as before.

-No more than 500cc of additional displacement above the OEM motor(the additional displacement must be the result of the head,block, or engine swap, not a bore or stroke???). In other words, a K24 in an RSX is ok, but a bored out RSX K20 into a 2.2 liter engine is not???? Factory approved overbore is still allowed.

- no dog box trannys or motorcycle style shifters

-no major cutting to get the engine/tranny in there.

- turbos, superchargers open

- any tranny that bolts up without modification to the engine, and is of the same make.

- no porting/polishing???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????

- any clutch and flywheel

- rolled fenders, but no flared fenders, etc., wheels must tuck under fenders when compressed. Flared fenders only allowed in SMF

- can remove A/C, but not heater

- can use any OEM brake/rotor setup as long as it from the same company and is a direct bolt-on. (300zx brakes on a 240sx, or NSX brakes on a civic/integra)

-proportioning valves, brake boosters, etc… are open

- any LSD

- no fuel cells

- OEM functional headlights, but glass lenses may be substituted to plastic lenses provided they were still functional (no tortured interpretations). Pop-ups must remain pop-ups
- no removal of rear seats
- can remove, radio, airbags, cruise control
- any ignition sys., ecu, wiring harness
- gauge cluster open to modification, as well as a/c and radio cover plates for instrumentation

- no wings or splitters

- rear wipers may be removed and plugged

- Sunroof and fog light plugs may be used in place of said devices (sunroof plug can’t leak)

- hood and trunk lid/hatch of any material

- OEM type or Braile/odyssey battery only(must weigh at least 10 lbs.). No lawnmower or motorcycle batteries. Must be mounted outside of passenger compartment/trunk unless it was there from the factory

- NO height or camber/toe/caster restrictions

- power steering my be removed proved the lines are looped, or replaced with a manual rack

- aluminum drive shaft allowed?????????

-bumper gutting not allowed???



OPTION; stock class allowances with the following additions:

- R comps

- any drivers and front passengers seat and seat belts

- interior removal (except for dash board and sound deadening???)

- no roll cage required

- exhaust removal or substitution

- radio removal

- rear wiper delete

- removal of all air bags (must retain stock steering wheel)

-A/C and heater removal

- power steering my be removed proved the lines are looped

- bumper supports may be removed

This option is designed to facilitate a cheap fast car that can transition to prepared or modified when money permits, but still allows one to revert back to stock if need be. Ballast might be needed to ensure it does not become the option of choice.



SMA=awd, SMR=rwd, SMF=fwd, wheel width penalties would be assessed for 2 seater cars?????



Street Modified X

Car looks like a street car but will most likely not pass emissions and safety inspections. As long as the car looks like it could be driven on the street, its ok.



- Full interior, lights etc…

- R comps

- any engine of the same make/forced induction/engine work/etc…

-any tranny

- any brakes/braking system

-port and polish allowed

- no major cutting to get engine/tranny in

- wings/splitters allowed

- stock pick up points for the most part

- carbon fiber or aluminum drive shaft allowed

- gutted bumper supports

- aftermarket side mirrors

- flared fenders of appropriate size must be used if necessary to cover a wheel that sticks out. Must go up inside fender/extender when compressed.

- Any Battery, anywhere. Must be vented if inside passenger compartment/trunk



OPTION; ST class allowances with the following additions:

- R comps

- any drivers and front passengers seat and seat belts

- interior removal (except for dash board and sound deadening???)

- no roll cage required

- exhaust removal or substitution

-radio removal

- rear wiper delete

-A/C and heater removal

- removal of all air bags (must retain stock steering wheel)

- power steering my be removed proved the lines are looped

- bumper supports may be removed

This option is designed to facilitate a cheap fast car that can transition to prepared or modified when money permits, but still allows one to revert back to stock if need be. Ballast might be needed to ensure it does not become the option of choice.



Prepared (R-comps, no interior, production based cars)

Cars are stripped and fully prepared for autocross competition (including R comps), but retain all their original “basic” drive-train components. The frame/body or unibody has not been substantially altered. These vehicles are not street legal for the most part.

- same rules as SCCA’s prepared classes

- flared fenders or fender extenders of appropriate size must be used if necessary to cover a wheel that sticks out.



Modified (R-comps, no interior, production based cars)

Vehicles that are gutted, retain their body/frame or unibody, an have the original drive train configuration.



- factory drivetrain layout

- Any make model engine you want.

- turbo/superchargers

- wings allowed

- weight to Cubic Centimeters ratio

- motorcycle engines allowed

- other rules???????



Formula (not production based, and R-comps)

For purpose built race cars, or production vehicles that have nothing more than the original floorboard, etc…(think NASCAR Ford Taurus)



Formula Different = vehicle is not powered by an internal combustion engine

F125,Fjr., FSEA, FA , FB, FD.





Reference threads:

ST ecu’s, emissions legal:

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/227373.aspx

What’s wrong with street prepared: http://sccaforums.com/forums/3/275713/ShowThread.aspx



-David Slovak

ST #22

[WRXRacer111]

As a quick statement... I like the SCCA rules. I like the NASA-X rules. I like that they're different, and that a front-running SCCA car might not be an ideal NASA-X car for any given 2 classes. Granted my ST Civic works pretty well in ST trim, and with NASA-X I can bolt on R-comps without bumping out of TTE.

That said, every rule set (this one included) doesn't solve every problem because honestly I don't think you can. Different problems pop up. The easy example: if you mandate 140 tread wear street tires... whichever manufacturer wants to win the most will come up with a borderline cheater tire to win if they think that will help them sell more tires. Preventing performance creep and a subsequent marketing advantage would be contrary to their business goal of selling more tires and making more $$$. So a manufacturer puts out a cheater tire, the competitive individuals buy those tires, shave them until they're bald (super bonus if the last 2/32" tread is softer than the rest of the tire compound...) and keep them trashbagged, cuddled and softly massaged each night before they get bolted onto the car at the event.

The person who shows up with Uniroyal Tigerpaws is still going to get smoked by the more motivated folks and be pissed about it if that's his/her prerogative. Whether the motivated folks are on r-comps or super-duper street tires won't make a difference. The corrective action for the smoked is still the same: complain about the equipment inequities and quit, focus on becoming a better driver, or get the same good stuff the smokee is using. It's very difficult to keep people from spending money on motorsports...

IMO the SCCA ruleset works better for folks who want to pick a class and build a car for said class, whereas the NASA-X ruleset works better for folks who want to enjoy their car first and foremost and not be sentenced to death by Street Modified for their otherwise stock car with a non-stock gearset.

[getfast]

That said, every rule set (this one included) doesn't solve every problem because honestly I don't think you can.

+1 to this. Also, it's an evolutionary process, and SCCA has many more years worth of data, not to mention many more participants to look at results from.

I need to sit down and really look at offcamber's ideas and offer my comments. With any luck I'll have time to do that soon.

Jon

[offcamber]

+1 to this. Also, it's an evolutionary process, and SCCA has many more years worth of data, not to mention many more participants to look at results from.

I need to sit down and really look at offcamber's ideas and offer my comments. With any luck I'll have time to do that soon.

Jon

lurking... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)